This is one of a series of taped interviews with musicians who are asked to give a snap opinion on a set of records played to them. Although no previous information is given as to what they are going to hear, they are, during the actual playing, handed the appropriate record sleeve. Thus in no way is their judgment influenced by being unaware of what they are hearing. As far as possible the records played to them are currently available items procurable from any record shop.
Although ‘Spoon’ has been singing the blues since 1944, it took the Monterey Jazz Festival in 1959 to bring him to the notice of most jazz lovers. The record he made in company with Ben Webster and Gerry Mulligan helped (Vogue LAE 12253) and was probably the strongest single factor to bring his wonderful singing to the public notice, although he had in 1952 scored some success with his recordings of T’ain’t Nobody’s Business and No Rolling Blues. In addition to his singing, Spoon is an accomplished musician, truly able to appreciate a good accompaniment. He thoroughly enjoyed his three weeks in England last summer, the enjoyment being spiced by the backing he received from his employer Ronnie Scott – whom Spoon rates as being one of the best tenor players he has ever worked with. – Sinclair Traill
‘The country blues aren’t typical Negro blues, tho’ it appears the kids in this country think otherwise’
The Jumpin’ Blues. Jay McShann & His Orchestra. Brunswick LA 8735
That was recorded in New York, I believe around 1942. I took over from Walter Brown, who sang there, some three years later. Jay McShann taught me a lot – I stayed with the band for three years. The band were full of blues, the real blues. I’ll tell you something. These country blues singers and musicians who are coming to this country right now, they are not typical of Negro blues. I like some of the country blues very much, tho’ I don’t sing them myself, but the country blues aren’t typical Negro blues, tho’ it appears the kids in this country think otherwise. I think real blues should be in metre, the tempo is very important, which is why this was such a great band. Basie, of course, is another great tempo man . . . but these bands from Kansas City, they were something different – all of ’em.
At Sundown. Mildred Bailey. Realm RM 196
She was really great, and I want to tell you something – she had a lot of feeling. It is a strange thing but I wasn’t conscious of who it was singing – to have such a lot of feeling. At first I said to myself, it must be Helen Humes, for it sounds a little bit like Helen – it was the sound they got in that era of jazz. She sings perfectly in tune, and good – as she always did. I know her husband Red Norvo very well; he lives out on the Coast and it is marvellous how he plays today. Very modern, like a kid of twenty. There are not many who have progressed with the times as Red has, tho’ of course I worked with Bean a few weeks ago in Washington D.C. Now Coleman Hawkins, he has something too! After working with Ben Webster for three years and then going on to Bean, it’s enough. So great! They are the two tenor players to make you say, ‘the end is coming!’ I don’t care what the young modern tenor players are playing, they have to play some Ben Webster and some Coleman Hawkins – I don’t care who they are, they can’t get away from it.
When I was with Bean a fellow walked in one night and asked him to play Body And Soul. He played it and when he was through the fellow came up and said, ‘But Mr. Hawkins, you don’t play it the same way as you used to do on that record.’ ‘No,’ said Bean ‘and that’s because I don’t think the same way as I used to.’ And that was the right answer – a beautiful statement. In himself he is a young man and I’ll tell you what the secret is. He surrounds himself with young but efficient musicians – and will put down any of the older musicians who haven’t tried to keep up with the times. I have heard him do that. He laughs about it, but I know he has little respect for ’em.
‘I was the most surprised man in my life when I first heard Ronnie Scott’
Of course, speaking of tenor players, I was the most surprised man in my life when I first heard Ronnie Scott. And that is not because he is the man who owns the club at which I worked, I say that because of his real efficiency. I had heard of Ronnie for a long time, but I never realised what his real calibre was, until I heard him in person. He has such a wide range, he can do anything! You know you can always tell the men from the boys when you call slow tunes and Ronnie he plays those slow ones beautifully.
Mosquito Knees. Stan Getz – The Greatest. Columbia 33SX 1526
Well, the men from the boys again! In 1956 at Hermosa Beach in California, I did a session with Getz. We had Arnold Ross on piano, Alvin Stoller on drums, Sweets Edison, trumpet, and Sonny Criss on alto, with Wardell Gray. Well, I called a blues in B flat, Good Rockin’ Tonight, and the band were playing so much, until Getz came from backstage with his horn. He wasn’t supposed to come on until he was announced, but he couldn’t resist that slow tempo, so I just sang one more chorus and then let him and Wardell work it out. And that was a session! It should have been recorded.
It’s Been A Long, Long Time. Louis Armstrong – Hello Dolly. London SH-R 8190
As a jazz singer he is the greatest! Even with that growling voice he is so in tune. I know he thinks sound is very important and you have to have good tone to sing jazz. Speaking of Pops, I was working in Las Vegas in 1955, and he and Lucille came by to see me. The Ink Spots with Dick Watson were also working there at the time. Now Pops knew I wasn’t doing too good, so this is what he did. He told Dick Watson that if he wanted to go somewhere he should take Spoon in with him. He did that and we went well. But before that I was doing rough.
I had made a lot of money in 1949/50 when they called it Rhythm and Blues. You know as well as I do that why they put that name to it was because they primarily sold the records to Negroes. But I think a lot of people never understood why this was and I have always said it was because the independent record companies went into the business. If you remember they all started around 1944/5 – like Aladdin, Speciality and lots of others. It was more or less beamed to the Negro market, so they had to have a name for it in order to advertise it, so they called it Rhythm & Blues.
Well, it lasted good until about 1953, until all down South there was a movement against it. I happened to be in Houston, Texas at the time. I had a record out on Chess and I asked the disc-jockey to play it, but he said he couldn’t. He said the programme director selects the tunes and there was something different going on. What they were trying to do in the South was to get the white American kids to stop from listening to Negro music, ’cause all you could hear was R&B. So what they decided to do was to have a programme director select all the tunes. Now, an unknown singer at that time, called Little Richard, had made a hit record, but they had banned this record. Not because it was risqué or anything, but because they didn’t want their kids to listen to it.
‘I have always maintained that Elvis Presley did one of the greatest things that ever happened for the young Negro entertainers’
Now, some six weeks later, a then insignificant singer called Elvis Presley came out with a record on Victor. Well, you can’t stop Victor or NBC so these stations had to go back and play all the stuff they had banned. Well, Elvis was singing all these things by Crudup and others, so they had to find a new name for the music. So someone came up with the name Rock And Roll. In consequence Little Richard and everybody got played on the air. So, I have always maintained that Elvis Presley did one of the greatest things that ever happened for the young Negro entertainers. Mind you, Elvis is not at all a bad singer – a lot of people laugh, but he can sing alright and he is in tune. I was starving in Houston when he came along. I could have gone home to San Francisco but I still had my pride and my appearance and I wouldn’t record that Rock and Roll. As I said to Atlantic records, how can I get up and sing about a girl going to school and here I am 30 years old? It doesn’t make sense, you can’t sing what you don’t feel.
Well, eventually I went back to San Francisco and one day I was in the barber’s shop, when ‘Sweets’ walked in. Well, he was doing very good on Capitol with Sinatra and all that, but I asked him if he would do a session with me. I told him the company were small and that I had no bread, but at once he said he would do it for me. So I had ‘Sweets’, Teddy Edwards, Hampton Hawes and Gerald Wilson, they all agreed to do it. We recorded this session for Rip in 1958.
Well, after that I went on to Newport, Kentucky and worked for the mob, what they call the gangsters. But they were very kind and good to me and I can’t say anything bad about them. I was playing bass with Charles Brown at that time. Then this record company Rip, they went out of business and sold the rights of their catalogues to World Pacific. Well, they put the record out and it was a success, so they started to look for me. Ads in Downbeat and everywhere. But I never saw those ads, and I was astounded when someone told me one day that I had an album out – I just couldn’t believe it. My first, too. So I went to a store and bought this album and straightaway called the record company named on the sleeve.
Well, I went back to Los Angeles, they signed me up and I also signed to do the Monterey Jazz Festival – this was in 1959. So I did another album at Monterey for Hi Fi Records, but it wasn’t too successful at that time. That came later. I had a drinking problem at that time. Not during the day, but whilst I was working at night. But I beat it for I found out that no artist can do a job intoxicated. No entertainer and no musician can work properly if he is under the effects of stimulants or drugs. It is impossible! I had a complex where I had to have it to perform, but I was only knocking myself out – not the audience.
One For My Baby. Billie Holiday Sings Songs For Distingué Lovers. Columbia 33SX 10145
Well, you know a lot of people talk about the way I sing – like I may wait a couple of bars before I come in. Well, maybe I have been listening to Billie for a long, long time. She was one of the few who sang that way – she’d wait for two or three bars before she’d come in. I do that also. Basically, I think I got that style from Jay McShann, ’cause McShann used to do this. He’d do that waiting on me, and try and lose me – purposely. He’d do it to keep me sharp. He’d wait a whole lot of chords and then suddenly try and catch me out.
I will never forget one time with Miles Davis. I’m one of the few singers he’ll call up on the stand, today. In 1956 we were workin’ together and he swears now I gave him a hernia, singing It Ain’t Nobody’s Business – I kept him hanging on so long. He says, ‘You stand up there looking at the audience for all of four bars before you come in,’ and I say, ‘Well, you lay off for eight, leaning on that post the way you do.’ You know how he waits sometimes? I think a lot of musicians have done me a lot of good. I listen to them, you know.
But getting back to Lady Day, there was only one and there will only be one. I maintain that a singer, a blues singer, has to have happened to them some of the things they sing about, otherwise it is not part of their life. That’s why you get so many people that can’t sing the blues—they think they can and they know the words, but the feeling is missing. I met hard times and good times also, but as long as something is happening in your life, then you can project. And of course that happened to Billie Holiday. To me she did no bad tunes, ever.
Gambler’s Blues. Dinah Washington Sings The Best In Blues. Mercury MPL 6519
And there is another singer who could do no wrong as far as I am concerned. I think she was the greatest singer that happened since Bessie Smith. Control, feeling, great voice, everything. In some ways she was too good, for they tried to get her away from the blues, which was a great pity. Like me now, they are trying to get me to go commercial, but you can quote me on this, I will never go all the way over to sing those ballads. Never!
